| >>>>>>>>>attack / weapon skill blunt | Mon Jul 19 12:24:37 2010 MST |
| On Mon Jul 19 12:23:13 2010 Korthrun wrote post #42:
> > life of me, have hit someone with them on the first try if i were
> > actually in a fight. attack is the ability to allow yourself, not
> > only to exercize the strength and power of the weapon, but hit with
> > it in a combat setting.
> >
> > necromancers do not learn how to fight. they learn how to use a staff.
> But but but..it's weaponskill blunt.
> What if I exploited a bug that allowed me to unwield my staff, and
> then wielded a club
> WHERE WOULD YOUR LOGIC BE THEN?!?!
Then your fams would be like 'OMG BRAINS' and eat you. |
| >>>>>>>>>>attack / weapon skill blunt | Mon Jul 19 12:30:08 2010 MST |
| On Mon Jul 19 12:24:37 2010 Roirraw wrote post #43:
> On Mon Jul 19 12:23:13 2010 Korthrun wrote post #42:
> > > life of me, have hit someone with them on the first try if i were
> > > actually in a fight. attack is the ability to allow yourself, not
> > > only to exercize the strength and power of the weapon, but hit with
> > > it in a combat setting.
> > >
> > > necromancers do not learn how to fight. they learn how to use a staff.
> > But but but..it's weaponskill blunt.
> > What if I exploited a bug that allowed me to unwield my staff, and
> > then wielded a club
> > WHERE WOULD YOUR LOGIC BE THEN?!?!
> Then your fams would be like 'OMG BRAINS' and eat you.
For lack of brains due to fams, I still stand by the inconsistancy
of the fact that no other guild that lacks attack contains what's
really a skill that's rooted in an attack skill (such as weapon
skill blah)...
and no matter how you slice it - if your a newbie MA with nunchucks
the fact is you have an attack skill that in time and training
allows you to effectively use that weapon...it's a mud afterall -
these RL examples with frying pans and nunchucks don't really hold
water.
papipets PRIEST DOWN
_cop
While I still see the easy route of not training it, it doesn't
follow that it's there without also having the corellary attack
skill - on the mud, the two work hand-in-hand - and while I
personally don't train attack/wsb on the druid I would have as a lvl
15 druid, which is why my newbie necro took warrior levels. |
| >>>>>>>>attack / weapon skill blunt | Mon Jul 19 14:55:15 2010 MST |
| On Mon Jul 19 12:18:20 2010 Open wrote post #41:
> attacks and actually hit your target.
>
> I took martial arts in high school, and i could do all the cool
> things they taught us to do with nunchucks. i could not, for the
> life of me, have hit someone with them on the first try if i were
> actually in a fight. attack is the ability to allow yourself, not
> only to exercize the strength and power of the weapon, but hit with
> it in a combat setting.
>
> necromancers do not learn how to fight. they learn how to use a staff.
Slightly more seriously
I get that attack is used to calculate your hit chance, and the
corresponding weapon skill to calc the impact of said hit.
I think perhaps this concept needs reviewed. They kind of go hand in hand.
I get your nunchuck example, but I think that is more the exception
than the rule.
If I train in the use of a weapon, part of that training involves
being able to hit stuff with that weapon.
It's a weapon. That's what it's for. You use it to hurt things. If I
completed a training course with a weapon, I'd expect to be able to
hit something with it (the weapon, not the training course).
I think the real flaw here isn't so much that some guilds get a
weapon skill without attack, but the separation of a weapon
proficiency and the ability to hit with said weapon.
If you think about it our current system seems to imply that you can
become a master of.... melee aiming. I don't think that in reality
or fantasy that this holds true. If I can hit you with my dagger
every time (e.g. attack trained well), it doesn't stand to reason
that I will be any good at hitting you with a sword. They're
different weapons. They differ widely in length and weight, and even
the type of attacks you would use to hit (before taking any sort of
technique into account, like it's implied the various weapon skills
are for). A sword pro is more likely to slash you, which swords are
designed for, than to poke you which daggers are designed for.
Perhaps we need to get rid of attack, bump up the training costs of
weapon skill, and have combat take into account your profiency with
your currently weilded weapon when calculating hit chance. |
| >>>>>>>>>attack / weapon skill blunt | Mon Jul 19 15:04:34 2010 MST |
| On Mon Jul 19 14:55:15 2010 Korthrun wrote post #45:
> that I will be any good at hitting you with a sword. They're
> different weapons. They differ widely in length and weight, and even
> the type of attacks you would use to hit (before taking any sort of
> technique into account, like it's implied the various weapon skills
> are for). A sword pro is more likely to slash you, which swords are
> designed for, than to poke you which daggers are designed for.
>
> Perhaps we need to get rid of attack, bump up the training costs of
> weapon skill, and have combat take into account your profiency with
> your currently weilded weapon when calculating hit chance.
Whether or not you think the system makes sense, it is the system we
have, and I am not going to change it because necromancer guild
doesn't have attack.
The bottom line is, they learn how to do damage with their staff,
not how to make contact with the opponent.
The end result is, they get weapon skill blunt and not attack. |
| >attack / weapon skill blunt | Mon Jul 19 15:06:39 2010 MST |
| If you really insist on making IOM skills consistent with reality (which, btw, I heartily recommend against), you can consider it as follows:
Think of attack as training in physically hitting another being with intent to kill (something, surprisingly, people do need training to do), as well as knowledge of where to hit them effectively. You may not know how to swing a staff effectively, but you are capable of trying to swing it at a person, and know where to hit them to actually effect damage.
While this is often taught along with the skill of actually swinging, it is also separable. They are related, but not identical, skills.
Ideally, maybe we'd have related skills - so that, say, if you're trained in the weapon you're currently using, your attack skill would default to half your weapon skill or something.
But I see no particular reason being trained in one would mandate being trained in the other.
And, as I started with, this all presupposes you assume your fantasy rules must match reality. And that way lies madness.
-Daneel
(to quote Emerson: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds....") |
| >>>>>>>>>>attack / weapon skill blunt | Mon Jul 19 16:41:17 2010 MST |
| Or we could give you attack skill... and make mobs as smart as there
stats say they are and they wont waste time on Attacking your fams
because they know its the skinny asshole in the back screaming
orders and casting spells who is in charge. Get over it you have
fams to do your "attack" damage and take the hits you yourself cant
take, so what you spent all your time learning to connect and bring
dead shit back to life not wielding a sword/staff and training with
it. |
| >>>>>>>>>>>attack / weapon skill blunt | Mon Jul 19 19:14:02 2010 MST |
| On Mon Jul 19 16:41:17 2010 Lokie wrote post #48:
> Or we could give you attack skill... and make mobs as smart as there
> stats say they are and they wont waste time on Attacking your fams
> because they know its the skinny asshole in the back screaming
> orders and casting spells who is in charge. Get over it you have
> fams to do your "attack" damage and take the hits you yourself cant
> take, so what you spent all your time learning to connect and bring
> dead shit back to life not wielding a sword/staff and training with
> it.
Traitor!
w: blunt weapons mastery in necromancer |
| >attack / weapon skill blunt | Mon Jul 19 20:29:41 2010 MST |
| I realy dont see the point to this anyway. ALL necros take unraveller for cause light woulds. Guess what you get attack then too. (although limited to its training amount)
|
| >>attack / weapon skill blunt | Mon Jul 19 20:52:46 2010 MST |
| On Mon Jul 19 20:29:41 2010 Tylon wrote post #50:
> I realy dont see the point to this anyway. ALL necros take unraveller for
cause light woulds. Guess what you get attack then too. (although limited to
its training amount)
I don't take unraveller secondary.. I take weaver and warrior..
kinda a moot point since both get attack, just wanted to throw it
out there regardless |
| >>>>>>>>>>attack / weapon skill blunt | Mon Jul 19 23:55:57 2010 MST |
| On Mon Jul 19 15:04:34 2010 Open wrote post #46:
> > weapon skill, and have combat take into account your profiency with
> > your currently weilded weapon when calculating hit chance.
> Whether or not you think the system makes sense, it is the system we
> have, and I am not going to change it because necromancer guild
> doesn't have attack.
>
> The bottom line is, they learn how to do damage with their staff,
> not how to make contact with the opponent.
>
> The end result is, they get weapon skill blunt and not attack.
I wouldn't expect you to. Touching combat itself is scary.
I know this without ever even having peeked at the code. |
|
